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Imminent Windows Vista and DirectX

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Subject Author Date
Imminent Windows Vista and DirectX Barrabas 06-06-2006
Posted by Barrabas on June 6, 2006, 9:36 pm
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Is it true that all the laptop computers sold now with Windows XP are
recommended
not to be upgraded to Vista?
I found something worrying. I got the DirectX SDK in April off
the Microsoft website.
The samples include ones using DirectX 10. When trying to run them
I get a message saying, 'Vista or later' and they won't run on XP.

In the past new version of DirectX always worked on an OS a few years old.
Windows 95 worked with up to DirectX 8.1. What is different?




Posted by Barry Watzman on June 6, 2006, 11:18 pm
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No it is not true. My Toshiba A105 is Vista capable (per the Vista
advisor program), even including the Aero interface, and it only has
chipset video (Intel Graphics Accelerator 900). I was looking at the
Dell web site today and the vast, vast majority of their notebooks are
Vista and Aero capable.

I'd almost go so far as to say that any laptop being sold today will be
Vista capable, at the very least without Aero, if you upgrade memory
(512 megs or more, after deducting whatever is used by a shared memory
video system) and possibly the hard drive. A smaller number, but
probably still most, will run the Aero interface, but Vista can run even
if Aero is not supported.

As for DirectX, I think you happened to download a beta version of DX
intended (at least at this time) only for the people who are beta
testing Vista. However, it is possible that DX 9 is the last version of
DX for XP and that DX 10 will not be backwards compatible to XP.



Barrabas wrote:

> Is it true that all the laptop computers sold now with Windows XP are
> recommended
> not to be upgraded to Vista?
> I found something worrying. I got the DirectX SDK in April off
> the Microsoft website.
> The samples include ones using DirectX 10. When trying to run them
> I get a message saying, 'Vista or later' and they won't run on XP.
>
> In the past new version of DirectX always worked on an OS a few years old.
> Windows 95 worked with up to DirectX 8.1. What is different?
>
>
>

Posted by Barrabas on June 7, 2006, 8:05 am
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> No it is not true. My Toshiba A105 is Vista capable (per the Vista
> advisor program), even including the Aero interface, and it only has
> chipset video (Intel Graphics Accelerator 900). I was looking at the Dell
> web site today and the vast, vast majority of their notebooks are Vista
> and Aero capable.
>
> I'd almost go so far as to say that any laptop being sold today will be
> Vista capable, at the very least without Aero, if you upgrade memory (512
> megs or more, after deducting whatever is used by a shared memory video
> system) and possibly the hard drive. A smaller number, but probably still
> most, will run the Aero interface, but Vista can run even if Aero is not
> supported.
>
> As for DirectX, I think you happened to download a beta version of DX
> intended (at least at this time) only for the people who are beta testing
> Vista. However, it is possible that DX 9 is the last version of DX for XP
> and that DX 10 will not be backwards compatible to XP.

I'm a little new to laptops. I was told once that the operating system it
comes
with is the one it's meant to stay with, dual booting notwithstanding.
What about all the Toshiba applications running, such as power saver and
such,
what happens to those if I upgrade?
I'm not supposed to use graphics card driver upgrades that aren't on the
Toshiba
website. I tried once and one of my favourite options vanished and I
quickly reverted
(maintain aspect ratio) on an ATI card.

The latest version of DirectX being the last for XP seems very odd.

John


>
>
>
> Barrabas wrote:
>
>> Is it true that all the laptop computers sold now with Windows XP are
>> recommended
>> not to be upgraded to Vista?
>> I found something worrying. I got the DirectX SDK in April off
>> the Microsoft website.
>> The samples include ones using DirectX 10. When trying to run them
>> I get a message saying, 'Vista or later' and they won't run on XP.
>>
>> In the past new version of DirectX always worked on an OS a few years
>> old.
>> Windows 95 worked with up to DirectX 8.1. What is different?
>>
>>


Posted by J. Clarke on June 7, 2006, 9:09 am
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Barrabas wrote:

>
>> No it is not true. My Toshiba A105 is Vista capable (per the Vista
>> advisor program), even including the Aero interface, and it only has
>> chipset video (Intel Graphics Accelerator 900). I was looking at the
>> Dell web site today and the vast, vast majority of their notebooks are
>> Vista and Aero capable.
>>
>> I'd almost go so far as to say that any laptop being sold today will be
>> Vista capable, at the very least without Aero, if you upgrade memory (512
>> megs or more, after deducting whatever is used by a shared memory video
>> system) and possibly the hard drive. A smaller number, but probably
>> still most, will run the Aero interface, but Vista can run even if Aero
>> is not supported.
>>
>> As for DirectX, I think you happened to download a beta version of DX
>> intended (at least at this time) only for the people who are beta testing
>> Vista. However, it is possible that DX 9 is the last version of DX for
>> XP and that DX 10 will not be backwards compatible to XP.
>
> I'm a little new to laptops. I was told once that the operating system it
> comes
> with is the one it's meant to stay with, dual booting notwithstanding.

I have a P233 Thinkpad that came with Windows 95 that is running fine under
Windows 2000. I could put XP on it but it really doesn't have enough
processor power or RAM for that--all the drivers are available though.

> What about all the Toshiba applications running, such as power saver and
> such,
> what happens to those if I upgrade?

Generally the power saver is a function of the chipset and not of anything
special on the computer--the chipset is made by Intel or Via or SIS or
someone, not Toshiba, and there are generic drivers.

> I'm not supposed to use graphics card driver upgrades that aren't on the
> Toshiba
> website. I tried once and one of my favourite options vanished and I
> quickly reverted
> (maintain aspect ratio) on an ATI card.

ATI for reasons known only to them turns off Mobility support in the drivers
on their Web site--you can work around this any of several ways, the
easiest being to use the Omega drivers instead of the ATI (Omega's drivers
are not third-party, they are the same drivers that you get from ATI but
Omega has tweaked a number of options, one of them being that support for
the Mobility chips is turned on).

The most likely area of difficulty is the Wifi chip--if it's an Intel then
you've got no problem, but if it's Broadcomm the drivers may be hard to
come by.

> The latest version of DirectX being the last for XP seems very odd.

Yep.
>
> John
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Barrabas wrote:
>>
>>> Is it true that all the laptop computers sold now with Windows XP are
>>> recommended
>>> not to be upgraded to Vista?
>>> I found something worrying. I got the DirectX SDK in April off
>>> the Microsoft website.
>>> The samples include ones using DirectX 10. When trying to run them
>>> I get a message saying, 'Vista or later' and they won't run on XP.
>>>
>>> In the past new version of DirectX always worked on an OS a few years
>>> old.
>>> Windows 95 worked with up to DirectX 8.1. What is different?
>>>
>>>

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Posted by Barry Watzman on June 7, 2006, 11:20 am
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Re: "I was told once that the operating system it comes with is the one
it's meant to stay with, dual booting notwithstanding. What about all
the Toshiba applications running, such as power saver and such, what
happens to those if I upgrade? I'm not supposed to use graphics card
driver upgrades that aren't on the Toshiba website."

A gross misunderstanding and misinterpretation.

There are two issues that you have mixed up in your understanding.

The first issue is whether or not the operating system that comes on a
laptop can be move to another computer. The answer is that it can't be
LEGALLY moved due to licensing restrictions. Legally, that OS is tied
to that computer forever. Even that, however, does not necessarily that
it can't actually [physically] be done, although in some cases product
activation may make activation of such an operating system difficult or
impossible.

The second issue is whether another OS can be installed on a computer
that comes with an OS preinstalled, and the answer is an unequivocal
yes. A laptop is no different than any other computer. You can install
any OS you want, and for which you can have or can find (or even can
write) the necessary drivers.

As for applications and drivers that come with (preinstalled on) a laptop:

-Many are unnecessary; in fact, many are even undesireable (people are
actually writing programs ("decrapifiers") to do wholesale removal of
ALL such software ("crapware") at once from new laptops with
preinstalled software.

-The ones that are necessary and/or desireable are generally available
separately either on CDs that come with the laptop or by download from
the manufacturer's web site

-It's not absolutely true that you can't/shouldn't ever use non-OEM
drivers. It is true that in general, you should first use the drivers
from the OEM's web site where they exist for the hardware and OS to be
installed. However, there are quite a few times when it's appropriate
to use a non-OEM driver, including both when you are installing an OS
that the OEM doesn't support on that hardware at all, and when the OEM
fails to offer software or driver upgrades that are available elsewhere.


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