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How to define a HTML page not allow scroll bars and resize?

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How to define a HTML page not allow scroll bars and resize? RC 07-26-2006
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Posted by Richard Cornford on July 27, 2006, 1:20 pm
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PTM wrote:
> Andy Dingley wrote:
<snip>
>> The best thing to work these sizes out is usually the browser, right
>> at the last minute. Second best is the user. Developer's guesses
>> are a far-behind third place.
>
> But if you have a fixed size, fixed face font, with a fixed number of
> characters, taking up a fixed height and width, or a pop-up of a larger
> image or something, then why not fix the window size?

"But if you have" is only a worthwhile consideration if you do (or
could) have, and you don't. You cannot fix the font size (even on IE 6
as it allows user style sheets to override all author provided CSS),
you cannot know the font face (but can be fairly certain that it will
not be a font face that is not installed on the machine running the
browser) and strictly you cannot know the number of characters as a
user style sheet may insert something extra (though it is massively
unlikely that they would). So you cannot know the width and height of
any displayed text with certainty.

Images seem to offer more potential, particularly when loaded directly
rather than displayed in an HTML page (to which some CSS may alter the
size of the image), but even when an image is displayed directly in a
browser it is actually being displayed in a browser created (x?)HTML
page, and that page will be just as susceptible to user style sheets as
any other (including various applications of borders margins and
padding and directly setting the size of the IMG elements).

Richard.


Posted by maya on July 27, 2006, 3:54 pm
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Harlan Messinger wrote:
> RC wrote:
>> I know how to do this in JavaScript by
>>
>> window.open("newFile.html",
>> "newTarget",
>> "scrollbars=no,resizable=0,width=200,height=200");
>>
>> The browser will open a new window size 200x200, not allow resize and
>> no auto horizontal, vertical scrolling bars.
>>
>> I am wonder can I do the similar inside a HTML file like
>>
>> <html><head>
>> <meta pageSize=200x200, resize=no, scrollbars=no />
>> </head>
>> <body>
>> ...
>> </body></html>
>>
>> Can I do that?
>>
>> Or do in CSS
>> html { height: 200; width: 200;
>> overflow-y: hidden; overflow-x: hidden; }
>>
>> But how can you in CSS out side of the html tag?
>> Because the <style> tag is between the html open/close tags.
>
> It's the user's business, not yours, how big he wants or needs his
> window to be. One of the most obnoxious things I've come across on the
> web is a page that suddenly makes my browser open full-screen, as though
> the site owner has any business whatsoever controlling the layout of my
> computer screen. This is right up there with playing unwanted music.

I find it interesting how so many folks here go ballistic at the idea of
developers opening new browser windows on their desktops (I find this
perfectly acceptable EXCEPT for advertising purposes, which is not
really part of an app, it's an invasive intrusion..); if you're using
any desktop app you're always opening tons of new windows, dialogues,
etc.. but a new browser window? oh horror!! :) sometimes I even WISH
certain links would open in a new window so I could easily go back and
look at the list of links, for example, while looking at particular link
I just opened..

same thing with window size, I mean shouldn't developers -- in certain
situations -- be able to adjust window size to window content? (what a
concept...;)

I love pop-ups, I learned pop-ups early on when I was learning
JavaScript about eight years ago and I think you can design good UIs
with them if you use them properly, but oh well... I guess abusive
advertisers took care of that one!! ;)

ok, we all know there are many different opinions about all this.. this
is just my two cents...;)




Posted by PTM on July 27, 2006, 4:30 pm
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> Harlan Messinger wrote:
>> RC wrote:
>>> I know how to do this in JavaScript by
>>>
>>> window.open("newFile.html",
>>> "newTarget",
>>> "scrollbars=no,resizable=0,width=200,height=200");
>>>
>>> The browser will open a new window size 200x200, not allow resize and
>>> no auto horizontal, vertical scrolling bars.
>>>
>>> I am wonder can I do the similar inside a HTML file like
>>>
>>> <html><head>
>>> <meta pageSize=200x200, resize=no, scrollbars=no />
>>> </head>
>>> <body>
>>> ...
>>> </body></html>
>>>
>>> Can I do that?
>>>
>>> Or do in CSS
>>> html { height: 200; width: 200;
>>> overflow-y: hidden; overflow-x: hidden; }
>>>
>>> But how can you in CSS out side of the html tag?
>>> Because the <style> tag is between the html open/close tags.
>>
>> It's the user's business, not yours, how big he wants or needs his window
>> to be. One of the most obnoxious things I've come across on the web is a
>> page that suddenly makes my browser open full-screen, as though the site
>> owner has any business whatsoever controlling the layout of my computer
>> screen. This is right up there with playing unwanted music.
>
> I find it interesting how so many folks here go ballistic at the idea of
> developers opening new browser windows on their desktops (I find this
> perfectly acceptable EXCEPT for advertising purposes, which is not really
> part of an app, it's an invasive intrusion..); if you're using any desktop
> app you're always opening tons of new windows, dialogues, etc.. but a new
> browser window? oh horror!! :) sometimes I even WISH certain links
> would open in a new window so I could easily go back and look at the list
> of links, for example, while looking at particular link I just opened..
>
> same thing with window size, I mean shouldn't developers -- in certain
> situations -- be able to adjust window size to window content? (what a
> concept...;)
>
> I love pop-ups, I learned pop-ups early on when I was learning JavaScript
> about eight years ago and I think you can design good UIs with them if you
> use them properly, but oh well... I guess abusive advertisers took care
> of that one!! ;)
>
> ok, we all know there are many different opinions about all this.. this is
> just my two cents...;)
>
>
>
here here, two cents very well spent.
i'm sure css and user layout options would not exist if it wasn't for
developers trying to present THEIR content as they would like users to see
it in it's best light.



Posted by Andy Mabbett on July 27, 2006, 5:41 pm
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>I find it interesting how so many folks here go ballistic at the idea
>of developers opening new browser windows on their desktops

Who says everyone have a desktop?

Who says that everyone who does have a desktop, can have multiple
windows open on it?

>sometimes I even WISH certain links would open in a new window so I
>could easily go back and look at the list of links, for example, while
>looking at particular link I just opened..

You mean that you have a browser which doesn't allow you to do that?

>same thing with window size, I mean shouldn't developers -- in certain
>situations -- be able to adjust window size to window content? (what a
>concept...;)

How do you intend to do that, on someone's mobile phone?

--
Andy Mabbett
Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: <http://www.no2id.net/>

Free Our Data: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk>

Posted by Jack on July 27, 2006, 6:31 pm
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Andy Mabbett wrote (apparently quoting Maya):

>> same thing with window size, I mean shouldn't developers -- in certain
>> situations -- be able to adjust window size to window content? (what a
>> concept...;)
>
> How do you intend to do that, on someone's mobile phone?
>

Some people may see this as a peripheral concern; they may see "the
desktop" as their principal "market". I think the desktop is peripheral.
My kids are both computer-savvy; but they both spend a lot more time
figuring-out how to use their respective MP3 players and their mobile
phones, than they do figuring out how IE or Firefox works.

I've thought for a long time that general-purpose computers were wasted
on retail users; suppliers and users alike will both be better-served by
appliances that do one thing well, and can be disposed-of when they are
"obsolete". I envisage, for example, a word-processor that you could buy
from a stationer's. It would look a lot like a book. On the next shelf,
you would expect to see a variety of browser-appliances; they would look
exactly the same, apart from the packaging. They would not be
upgradable; if there was a bug in the software, you would return the
goods and demand a refund, as you would if you had bought a hi-fi that
didn't work. Bugs are not acceptable in consumer products.

None of these appliances would be user-programmable; and I wouldn't
expect the user to be able to adjust the window-size in either case.

I don't think that programmable computers are a sensible long-term
solution for end-user requirements - it's too complicated to support
end-users with that kind of complexity. Programmable computers are for
programmers.

IMO.
--
Jack.
http://www.jackpot.uk.net/

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