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How to define a HTML page not allow scroll bars and resize?

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How to define a HTML page not allow scroll bars and resize? RC 07-26-2006
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Posted by Andy Dingley on July 27, 2006, 11:25 am
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PTM wrote:

> That's not always true. Often users get frustrated or annoyed by windows
> that are far too big or small for the content. Sometimes it's preferable
> (user wise) for the window size to be dictated by the developer.

No, never.

Simply because the developer doesn't _know_ what the best window size
is. That's dependent on run-time combinations of font and available
space.

The best thing to work these sizes out is usually the browser, right at
the last minute. Second best is the user. Developer's guesses are a
far-behind third place.


Posted by PTM on July 27, 2006, 11:54 am
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>
> PTM wrote:
>
>> That's not always true. Often users get frustrated or annoyed by windows
>> that are far too big or small for the content. Sometimes it's preferable
>> (user wise) for the window size to be dictated by the developer.
>
> No, never.
>
> Simply because the developer doesn't _know_ what the best window size
> is. That's dependent on run-time combinations of font and available
> space.
>
> The best thing to work these sizes out is usually the browser, right at
> the last minute. Second best is the user. Developer's guesses are a
> far-behind third place.
>

But if you have a fixed size, fixed face font, with a fixed number of
characters, taking up a fixed height and width, or a pop-up of a larger
image or something, then why not fix the window size?



Posted by Jack on July 27, 2006, 1:07 pm
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PTM wrote:
>> PTM wrote:
>>
>>> That's not always true. Often users get frustrated or annoyed by
>>> windows that are far too big or small for the content. Sometimes
>>> it's preferable (user wise) for the window size to be dictated by
>>> the developer.
>> No, never.
>>
>> Simply because the developer doesn't _know_ what the best window
>> size is. That's dependent on run-time combinations of font and
>> available space.
>>
>> The best thing to work these sizes out is usually the browser,
>> right at the last minute. Second best is the user. Developer's
>> guesses are a far-behind third place.
>>
>
> But if you have a fixed size, fixed face font, with a fixed number of
> characters, taking up a fixed height and width, or a pop-up of a
> larger image or something, then why not fix the window size?

Well *you* may have that font; but the user may not have it, or they may
not be able to read it, and so they may have set an override.

You can't count on your type taking up a box of some particular
dimensions, even if the font you have specified is being displayed by
the user's browser. I'm not sure what you mean by "pop-up" in this
context; but many browsers allow people to zoom images.

I'm afraid you made a weak argument there; you could have made a
stronger one, but I don't feel like arguing over these details. The
principle is that the user should be in control, where GUIs are
concerned; and webpages are GUIs. If a GUI designer thinks that a user
shouldn't be in control, then either he has to argue against this
accepted principle, or he has to make a special-case argument.

I don't deny that there are special cases; but to qualify, a case has
to be special.

--
Jack.
http://www.jackpot.uk.net/

Posted by PTM on July 27, 2006, 1:47 pm
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> PTM wrote:
>>> PTM wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's not always true. Often users get frustrated or annoyed by
>>>> windows that are far too big or small for the content. Sometimes
>>>> it's preferable (user wise) for the window size to be dictated by
>>>> the developer.
>>> No, never.
>>>
>>> Simply because the developer doesn't _know_ what the best window
>>> size is. That's dependent on run-time combinations of font and
>>> available space.
>>>
>>> The best thing to work these sizes out is usually the browser,
>>> right at the last minute. Second best is the user. Developer's
>>> guesses are a far-behind third place.
>>>
>>
>> But if you have a fixed size, fixed face font, with a fixed number of
>> characters, taking up a fixed height and width, or a pop-up of a
>> larger image or something, then why not fix the window size?
>
> Well *you* may have that font; but the user may not have it, or they may
> not be able to read it, and so they may have set an override.
>
> You can't count on your type taking up a box of some particular
> dimensions, even if the font you have specified is being displayed by
> the user's browser. I'm not sure what you mean by "pop-up" in this
> context; but many browsers allow people to zoom images.
>
> I'm afraid you made a weak argument there; you could have made a
> stronger one, but I don't feel like arguing over these details. The
> principle is that the user should be in control, where GUIs are
> concerned; and webpages are GUIs. If a GUI designer thinks that a user
> shouldn't be in control, then either he has to argue against this
> accepted principle, or he has to make a special-case argument.
>
> I don't deny that there are special cases; but to qualify, a case has
> to be special.
>
> --
> Jack.
> http://www.jackpot.uk.net/

I didn't make a weak argument. My initial comment was "Sometimes it's
preferable" emphasis on sometimes, to which you actually end up agreeing,
"special cases".
We should just all give up with this because everyone has their own
preference and no-one is ever going to win.



Posted by Richard Gration on July 27, 2006, 2:02 pm
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On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:47:06 +0000, PTM wrote:
> ... everyone has their own
> preference and no-one is ever going to win.

least of all the user

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