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Subject Author Date
How does MDS know what needs indexing? Sam 02-23-2006
Posted by Sam on February 23, 2006, 10:06 pm
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Hi-

I have XP Pro on my C: drive and My Documents on my D: drive.

This allows me to restore my OS to an earlier image without affecting my
data. HOWEVER, I have not relocated the Application folder to the D: drive -
and so whenever I restore my OS to an earlier image, the MDS index will no
longer be in synch with the My Documents folder.

My Questions:
1) MDS is configured to index My Documents and e-mails only. How does MDS
keep track of what it has indexed and what needs to be indexed?
2) After restoring an older OS image, will MDS be able to determine which
files need indexing/re-indexing and to delete the entries for files that have
been deleted?
3) Suppose I alter some of the My Document files OUTSIDE of XP (e.g. I boot
up under another OS). Will MDS recognize what needs to be
indexed/re-indexed/files that were deleted?

I am hoping that someone has the in-depth knowledge of MDS to answer my
questions.

With Regards-

Posted by JRush on February 24, 2006, 12:55 pm
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Hi Sam,

Here's the deal, every time you change your OS you will need to reinstall
the Desktop Search application.
Each time it's reinstalled, it will rebuild it's index based on what you
have selected to be indexed. If you go to Desktop Search Options and select
the section of the tree you can add other drives, folders etc to search.
Since the indexing happens in the background it will be relatively painless
but may take a little while.

To speed up the indexing process you can select 'Index Now' or under Desktop
Options, Indexing select 'Prioritize Indexing'. These features will speed
the indexing process, however it will also stop Desktop Search from backing
off while you are working with your system. The impact should be minimal
but depending on your system it may slow things down a little until the
index is complete.

Desktop Search automatically pauses indexing when the mouse, keyboard etc.
are in use. Also when various I/O levels are met or when memory usage hits
a certain threshold. It does this to be less obtrusive to the user
experience. Clicking Index Now will temporarily turn off the pause feature
until it has completed indexing. By selecting 'Prioritize Indexing' the
pause feature will be turned off as long as the option is checked.

As for how Desktop Search knows what to index.. Basically it will index
what ever is in the locations selected in the above mentioned Index section
of Desktop options. Once the initial index is built, when ever an file or
folder is updated, created or deleted the Indexer receives notification that
there has been an update and adds that file or foldere to the que. If your
system has been turned off or you log off and back in, when desktop search
starts up it goes through the list of folders, items and locations to index
and checks the last modified date with the date stored in the index. If the
date has changed, it digs in to find what changed and updates the index.

Unfortunately there is no way to 'back up' your index that I'm aware of, so
you can't simply backup the index folder or store it on the D drive and
expect the newly installed version to pick up where the last one left off.
This would be a GREAT IDEA and OUTSTANDING FEATURE, but as I understand it
currently it's not possible.

I hope this helps.

J.R.


> Hi-
>
> I have XP Pro on my C: drive and My Documents on my D: drive.
>
> This allows me to restore my OS to an earlier image without affecting my
> data. HOWEVER, I have not relocated the Application folder to the D:
> drive -
> and so whenever I restore my OS to an earlier image, the MDS index will no
> longer be in synch with the My Documents folder.
>
> My Questions:
> 1) MDS is configured to index My Documents and e-mails only. How does MDS
> keep track of what it has indexed and what needs to be indexed?
> 2) After restoring an older OS image, will MDS be able to determine which
> files need indexing/re-indexing and to delete the entries for files that
> have
> been deleted?
> 3) Suppose I alter some of the My Document files OUTSIDE of XP (e.g. I
> boot
> up under another OS). Will MDS recognize what needs to be
> indexed/re-indexed/files that were deleted?
>
> I am hoping that someone has the in-depth knowledge of MDS to answer my
> questions.
>
> With Regards-



Posted by Sam on February 24, 2006, 11:40 pm
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Hi JRush-
Thanks for your post.

I have relocated my index files to my D: drive. Since I am not indexing my
C: drive, I do not believe I will need to reinstall MDS when I restore a
prior OS image - the index and the data reside on the same partition and will
remain in synch - unless I am missing something...

>>when ever an file or folder is updated, created or deleted the Indexer
receives notification that
>> there has been an update and adds that file or foldere to the que.

I assume this must be the case - my question is "how"? You mentioned the
"last modified date" - some applications modify files in a manner that does
not change the modified date. I am interested in where you acquired the
knowledge that the mechanism MDS relies upon to update the index for a file
is it's "last modified date"?

My original questions remain:
> > 1) MDS is configured to index My Documents and e-mails only. How does MDS
> > keep track of what it has indexed and what needs to be indexed?
> > 2) After restoring an older OS image, will MDS be able to determine which
> > files need indexing/re-indexing and to delete the entries for files that
> > have been deleted? [I suppose that if the index files themselves contain
all the information for MDS to know what file indexes need to be updated, then
restoring an older OS image will not affect the indexes]

> > 3) Suppose I alter some of the My Document files OUTSIDE of XP (e.g. I
> > boot up under another OS). Will MDS recognize what needs to be
> > indexed/re-indexed/files that were deleted? [The answer to this question
will go a long way towards answering these questions]





"JRush" wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>
> Here's the deal, every time you change your OS you will need to reinstall
> the Desktop Search application.
> Each time it's reinstalled, it will rebuild it's index based on what you
> have selected to be indexed. If you go to Desktop Search Options and select
> the section of the tree you can add other drives, folders etc to search.
> Since the indexing happens in the background it will be relatively painless
> but may take a little while.
>
> To speed up the indexing process you can select 'Index Now' or under Desktop
> Options, Indexing select 'Prioritize Indexing'. These features will speed
> the indexing process, however it will also stop Desktop Search from backing
> off while you are working with your system. The impact should be minimal
> but depending on your system it may slow things down a little until the
> index is complete.
>
> Desktop Search automatically pauses indexing when the mouse, keyboard etc.
> are in use. Also when various I/O levels are met or when memory usage hits
> a certain threshold. It does this to be less obtrusive to the user
> experience. Clicking Index Now will temporarily turn off the pause feature
> until it has completed indexing. By selecting 'Prioritize Indexing' the
> pause feature will be turned off as long as the option is checked.
>
> As for how Desktop Search knows what to index.. Basically it will index
> what ever is in the locations selected in the above mentioned Index section
> of Desktop options. Once the initial index is built, when ever an file or
> folder is updated, created or deleted the Indexer receives notification that
> there has been an update and adds that file or foldere to the que. If your
> system has been turned off or you log off and back in, when desktop search
> starts up it goes through the list of folders, items and locations to index
> and checks the last modified date with the date stored in the index. If the
> date has changed, it digs in to find what changed and updates the index.
>
> Unfortunately there is no way to 'back up' your index that I'm aware of, so
> you can't simply backup the index folder or store it on the D drive and
> expect the newly installed version to pick up where the last one left off.
> This would be a GREAT IDEA and OUTSTANDING FEATURE, but as I understand it
> currently it's not possible.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> J.R.
>
>
> > Hi-
> >
> > I have XP Pro on my C: drive and My Documents on my D: drive.
> >
> > This allows me to restore my OS to an earlier image without affecting my
> > data. HOWEVER, I have not relocated the Application folder to the D:
> > drive -
> > and so whenever I restore my OS to an earlier image, the MDS index will no
> > longer be in synch with the My Documents folder.
> >
> > My Questions:
> > 1) MDS is configured to index My Documents and e-mails only. How does MDS
> > keep track of what it has indexed and what needs to be indexed?
> > 2) After restoring an older OS image, will MDS be able to determine which
> > files need indexing/re-indexing and to delete the entries for files that
> > have
> > been deleted?
> > 3) Suppose I alter some of the My Document files OUTSIDE of XP (e.g. I
> > boot
> > up under another OS). Will MDS recognize what needs to be
> > indexed/re-indexed/files that were deleted?
> >
> > I am hoping that someone has the in-depth knowledge of MDS to answer my
> > questions.
> >
> > With Regards-
>
>
>

Posted by mrdavey on February 26, 2006, 6:38 pm
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I'll add my 2 cents to JRush's extremely detailed post (keep up the
good work).

1) It's not called MDS, it is WDS
2) When you install WDS, it saves your "index" somewhere in
C:\Documents and Settings\*user*\Local Settings\Application
Data\Microsoft\Desktop Search. I'm not exactly sure where the index
file is, but try a Google search and maybe you'll find out. If you are
only indexing your D: drive, then simply copying this 'index' file,
formating and reinstalling your OS, reinstalling WDS and then restoring
the index file to its original location *should* allow your old index
to spring back into action.
3) I think changing a file outside of Windows (when the indexing
service is not running) will cause WDS not to know about the changes to
that file. I thought JRush explained the "how" to your question quite
well... but i'll give it a go: The indexing service always runs in the
background (on a normal boot) and monitors the file system for any
changes. When changes are made, the indexing service 'sees' the changes
and writes the necessary data to the index file. I don't think JRush is
correct about the 'last modified date' mechanism, as that would require
quite a bit of CPU time and memory to run through the index and cross
check the 'last modified date' time stamps for each file. I think it's
a more simple monitoring of the filesystem only when the indexing
service is running.

Cheers,
David


Posted by Sam on February 26, 2006, 10:34 pm
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mrdavey- thanks for your post. Please see my responses below in >>CAPITAL
LETTERS

"mrdavey" wrote:
> 1) It's not called MDS, it is WDS
>>THANKS

> 2) When you install WDS, it saves your "index" somewhere in
> C:\Documents and Settings\*user*\Local Settings\Application
> Data\Microsoft\Desktop Search. I'm not exactly sure where the index
> file is, but try a Google search and maybe you'll find out. If you are
> only indexing your D: drive, then simply copying this 'index' file,
> formating and reinstalling your OS, reinstalling WDS and then restoring
> the index file to its original location *should* allow your old index
> to spring back into action.
>> SORRY IF I WAS UNCLEAR - I MENTIONED THAT I HAD RELOCATED MY INDEX FILES TO
MY D: DRIVE; I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT WDS ALLOWS YOU TO SELECT THE LOCATION
OF THE INDEX FILES - THIS ELIMINATES ANY OTHER NEEDED STEPS DURING IMAGE RESTORE
AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.


> 3) I think changing a file outside of Windows (when the indexing
> service is not running) will cause WDS not to know about the changes to
> that file. I thought JRush explained the "how" to your question quite
> well... but i'll give it a go: The indexing service always runs in the
> background (on a normal boot) and monitors the file system for any
> changes. When changes are made, the indexing service 'sees' the changes
> and writes the necessary data to the index file. I don't think JRush is
> correct about the 'last modified date' mechanism, as that would require
> quite a bit of CPU time and memory to run through the index and cross
> check the 'last modified date' time stamps for each file. I think it's
> a more simple monitoring of the filesystem only when the indexing
> service is running.
>> THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS - I AM HOPING TO ALSO HEAR FROM SOMEONE WHO
KNOWS THE MECHANICS OF HOW THIS ACTUALLY WORKS.

My original questions remain:
> > 1) MDS is configured to index My Documents and e-mails only. How does MDS
> > keep track of what it has indexed and what needs to be indexed? I AM HOPING
SOMEONE KNOWS THE ACTUAL MECHANICS
> > 2) After restoring an older OS image, will MDS be able to determine which
> > files need indexing/re-indexing and to delete the entries for files that
> > have been deleted? [I suppose that if the index files themselves contain all
the information for MDS to know what file indexes need to be updated, then
restoring an older OS image will not affect the indexes]

> > 3) Suppose I alter some of the My Document files OUTSIDE of XP (e.g. I
> > boot up under another OS). Will MDS recognize what needs to be
> > indexed/re-indexed/files that were deleted? [The answer to this question
will go a long way towards answering these questions]


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