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Heat a problem with laptops? Hula Baloo 05-04-2008
Posted by Quaoar on May 4, 2008, 11:45 pm
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 Hula Baloo wrote:
> I have my first new laptop since the days of the 286 chip (early 90s),
> and am curious about the potential for heat problems I've heard so much
> about with laptops. My new laptop is a Toshiba Satellite A215-S5825
> with an AMD Athlon dual processor TK-55 1.8 GHz CPU, 120 GB Fujitsu 5400
> RPM HD, 1.5 GB DDR2 PC5300 RAM. This machine is far from the top of the
> line ones, so I'd think heat would be less of a problem. On the other
> hand I know there's a lot of stuff cramed into a tiny space in this
> thing, and you're always seeing ads for laptop coolers. I'd really not
> bother with one of these coolers, and I do have a 4 year maintenance
> contract, but if the CPU, mobo, or other components are in jeopardy from
> heat, I might need one. My normal use of this machine is a couple of
> hrs. daily in my lap in my den, connected to my cable broadband via my
> Wi-Fi router and plugged into the house AC power. Sitting in my lap, I
> doubt if the air flow is optimal, but the power supply fan never seems
> to be running very fast nor its output all that hot (it's pretty warm
> air, but you can hold your hand next to it as long as you want without
> discomfort).
> Any feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
> appreciated. TIA


The newer notebooks are, I believe, heat-proofed to some extent. There
are generally CPU sensor(s) that will lead to an overheat shutdown, thus
preserving the integrity of the CPU and mainboard in the event of a
cooling system failure.

I note that most cooling fan inlets are screened to reject hair, fur,
pizza, etc, that were the main culprits in plugging the inlet to the
heat-pipe heat exchanger.

Also, total power consumption with the newer CPUs is down substantially
compared to the previous single core 2.6Ghz Pentium chips (as an
example), so cooling is somewhat less of an issue that say five years ago.

Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
apparent benefit.

Q

Posted by Richard Carpenter on May 5, 2008, 7:11 pm
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>
> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
> rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
> into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
> apparent benefit.
>

I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known to
draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of mine,
who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old, now).

Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old) got
*very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would actually
leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile processors do
get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to have overcome the
heat issue with their desktop processors, but their mobile offerings still
generate more heat than Intel.

--
Richard Carpenter


Posted by BillW50 on May 5, 2008, 8:01 pm
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Richard Carpenter typed on Mon, 5 May 2008 19:11:32 -0400:
>>
>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat
>> is rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are
>> sued into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground
>> for no apparent benefit.
>
> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of
> most laptops.

Well maybe... but the one that Bobb talked about...

- Bobb - typed:
>>> http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75004#
>>> http://www.antec.com/pdf/flyers/NoteBookCooler.pdf

Draws air from the top and pushes out the bottom. Which is the opposite
of natural airflow, as heat rises. And most laptops I know draws air
through the bottom and out the side. Thus at least this notebook cooler
is fighting against natural flow and against the laptop's own fan. It
might work, but it seems to make things work against each other isn't
such a good idea.

> That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known to
> draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years
> old, now).

My tests shows on this Gateway MX6124 laptop has a drop of 20°F of the
CPU if I add rear legs to boost the rear up an inch or so. As the CPU
runs at 150°F if it is on a flat table. And 130°F with my rear leg
modification. And the critical temperature of this Celeron M is at
156°F. So I think running at 130°F is no problem at all. Why would you
want more weight and power if just boosting up the laptop to increase
airflow will do the trick too?

> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old)
> got *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would
> actually leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD
> mobile processors do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD
> seems to have overcome the heat issue with their desktop processors,
> but their mobile offerings still generate more heat than Intel.

Oh I would never buy an AMD Mobile processor. But that is just me. ;-)

--
Bill


Posted by Quaoar on May 6, 2008, 7:34 pm
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Richard Carpenter wrote:
>>
>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat
>> is rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are
>> sued into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for
>> no apparent benefit.
>>
>
> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
> laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known
> to draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old,
> now).
>
> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old)
> got *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would
> actually leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile
> processors do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to
> have overcome the heat issue with their desktop processors, but their
> mobile offerings still generate more heat than Intel.
>

The current term is "notebook", since so many of the Pentium 4 notebooks
would burn the user into fine ash if used as a "laptop". You can verify
the idiocy of the term "laptop" by locating the ambient air inlet to the
cooling fan. Almost, without exception, the ambient air inlet to the
cooling fan is on the bottom surface where it can be blocked when placed
anywhere other than on a hard horizontal surface.

No "notebook" computers are being sold with the idea of having the unit
on one's lap or in bed since the ambient air inlet is on the bottom
surface. Burning of something - one's person, the bed coverings, the
notebook itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a "laptop".

Q

Posted by Hula Baloo on May 6, 2008, 9:11 pm
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Wow, what hyperbole! Here I sit in shorts with my laptop resting on my
exposed unprotected legs, and I'm not uncomfortable in the slightest. The
bottom of my 3 month old Toshiba A215-S5828 (AMD AK-55 1.8 GHz dual core
CPU) is slightly warm, but to say "Burning of something - one's person, the
bed coverings, the notebook itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a
"laptop"? You have quite an imagination!


> Richard Carpenter wrote:
>>>
>>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
>>> rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
>>> into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
>>> apparent benefit.
>>>
>>
>> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
>> laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known
>> to draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
>> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old,
>> now).
>>
>> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old) got
>> *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would actually
>> leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile processors
>> do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to have overcome
>> the heat issue with their desktop processors, but their mobile offerings
>> still generate more heat than Intel.
>>
>
> The current term is "notebook", since so many of the Pentium 4 notebooks
> would burn the user into fine ash if used as a "laptop". You can verify
> the idiocy of the term "laptop" by locating the ambient air inlet to the
> cooling fan. Almost, without exception, the ambient air inlet to the
> cooling fan is on the bottom surface where it can be blocked when placed
> anywhere other than on a hard horizontal surface.
>
> No "notebook" computers are being sold with the idea of having the unit on
> one's lap or in bed since the ambient air inlet is on the bottom surface.
> Burning of something - one's person, the bed coverings, the notebook
> itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a "laptop".
>
> Q


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