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Subject Author Date
HTML validation howa 03-17-2008
|--> Re: HTML validation Beauregard T. S...03-17-2008
|--> Re: HTML validation Harlan Messinge...03-17-2008
`--> Re: HTML validation Jukka K. Korpel...03-17-2008
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Posted by C A Upsdell on March 21, 2008, 10:56 pm
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 dorayme wrote:
>
>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>> XHTML 1.0 isn't usable on the web, because IE won't work with it.
>> B---S---
>
> Not really.

Really. It is BS, and I am sure that Dingley knows it is BS. As you --
and he, and most people in this newsgroup -- are aware:

1. IE does not support XHTML.

2. BUT: IE does render XHTML well with a media type of text/html.

3. AND: the W3C blesses the use of text/html when dealing with user
agents like IE: see the W3C document, "XHTML Media Types", which among
other things requires that the media type be text/html for HTML agents,
that the media type be application/xhtml+xml for XHTML user agents ...
and notes that content negotiation may be used to specify the
appropriate media type for each user agent.

4. THEREFORE: XHTML 1.0 is *useable*, because IE *will* work with it,
so long as the relevant W3C guidelines are followed.

What Dingley *could* have said is that the use of XHTML is not
recommended, that authors should use HTML 4.01 instead: but there is a
HUGE difference between "not usable" and "not recommended". There are
many XHTML sites on the web which are perfectly usable, even with IE.


Posted by Michael Fesser on March 21, 2008, 11:17 pm
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 .oO(C A Upsdell)

>dorayme wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>>> XHTML 1.0 isn't usable on the web, because IE won't work with it.
>>> B---S---
>>
>> Not really.
>
>Really. It is BS, and I am sure that Dingley knows it is BS. As you --
>and he, and most people in this newsgroup -- are aware:
>
>1. IE does not support XHTML.
>
>2. BUT: IE does render XHTML well with a media type of text/html.

Which is not much of XHTML anymore. You have to follow the App. C
guidelines and label and deliver it as HTML, so that the browsers
will handle and render it as HTML, even if it's no HTML ... stupid.

IE can't handle proper and correctly delivered XHTML. Period.

>3. AND: the W3C blesses the use of text/html when dealing with user
>agents like IE: see the W3C document, "XHTML Media Types", which among
>other things requires that the media type be text/html for HTML agents,
>that the media type be application/xhtml+xml for XHTML user agents ...

| The 'text/html' media type [RFC2854] is primarily for HTML, not for
| XHTML. In general, this media type is NOT suitable for XHTML.

And the table at the bottom of that document clearly shows that proper
XHTML should _not_ be delivered as text/html. If you have to write and
deliver it as HTML, then why attempt to use XHTML at all?

Micha

Posted by dorayme on March 22, 2008, 2:44 am
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> dorayme wrote:
> >
> >> Andy Dingley wrote:
> >>> XHTML 1.0 isn't usable on the web, because IE won't work with it.
> >> B---S---
> >
> > Not really.
>
> Really. It is BS, and I am sure that Dingley knows it is BS. As you --
> and he, and most people in this newsgroup -- are aware:
>
> 1. IE does not support XHTML.
>
> 2. BUT: IE does render XHTML well with a media type of text/html.
>
> 3. AND: the W3C blesses the use of text/html when dealing with user
> agents like IE: see the W3C document, "XHTML Media Types", which among
> other things requires that the media type be text/html for HTML agents,
> that the media type be application/xhtml+xml for XHTML user agents ...
> and notes that content negotiation may be used to specify the
> appropriate media type for each user agent.
>
> 4. THEREFORE: XHTML 1.0 is *useable*, because IE *will* work with it,
> so long as the relevant W3C guidelines are followed.
>
> What Dingley *could* have said is that the use of XHTML is not
> recommended, that authors should use HTML 4.01 instead: but there is a
> HUGE difference between "not usable" and "not recommended". There are
> many XHTML sites on the web which are perfectly usable, even with IE.

OK, I can see you are in a passionate mood on this. I was understanding
what he was saying differently to you, reading behind the actual words.
I am a soft touch at the moment because I am delving into html root
theory and it makes ordinary earthly concerns a bit vague and fuzzy. <g>

--
dorayme

Posted by rf on March 21, 2008, 9:58 pm
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> Andy Dingley wrote:
>> XHTML 1.0 isn't usable on the web, because IE won't work with it.
>
> B---S---

This is discussed somewhere at least once a week.

Feed XHTML to IE (any version) properly as 'application/xhtml+xml' and
admire how it politely asks you if you want to download it. That is not
"working with it" IMHO.

Serve XHTML to IE as "text/html" and it happily tag soup error corrects it
to HTML. That is also not "working with it".

--
Richard.



Posted by dorayme on March 22, 2008, 2:34 am
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> Serve XHTML to IE as "text/html" and it happily tag soup error corrects it
> to HTML. That is also not "working with it".

Perhaps that is a teensy weensy bit harsh rf? Surely it is reaching an
accommodation with it and so in a sense it is working with it.

It is an interesting social problem how come so many people use the
xhtml doctype when there is so little point. It got some press and off
it went like Britney...

--
dorayme

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