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Google Page Rank mystery sandy 08-04-2005
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Posted by sandy on August 4, 2005, 5:25 am
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I have a hobby website at:

http://www.montana-riverboats.com
which also resolves as:
http://montana-riverboats.com ...without the www.

One address has a Google page rank of three.
The other address has a Google page rank of four.
(at least according to the Firefox page rank plugin).

How can this be? They are the same site.
Does Google count the two (with and without www in the domain name)
as separate sites? Does this mean all the external links
pointing to the www version don' count for the non-www version?
When they should?
I thought Google was smart. How can they be so transparently
stupid, and not fix it? If they store domain names in
a B-Tree like structure, it would be easy, and not all that
expensive, to determine duplicate addresses, and get right.

In fact, the runtime expense revolving around duplicated
and fractured site information would, you would think, be
more expensive than storing it once...the right way.



--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh >--oO0>
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Posted by dingbat on August 4, 2005, 7:33 am
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I'm inclined to turn the flame-o-doom on and suggest that you write to
Google and explain your solution to them, but then you seem to make
nice boats so I won't 8-)

These are two entirely separate sites. Maybe they're not different, but
they are separate. As far as Google knows (as far as Google _can_
know), then they're entirely separate.

Why they're separate is up to your ISP. They've chosen to configure
their servers so that both URLs return a 200 and appear to be sites
that are separate (and could even be different).

What they perhaps ought to do is to re-configure things so that one
site (I'd suggest www.) sends a 301 "Moved Permanently" and redirects
to the other.

What you should do is to chill out, then fix it. I wouldn't even bother
badgering the ISP over it (maybe a light moleing, or a brief going over
with a couple of squirrels). You can sort this out for yourself with a
few minutes Googlejuice, and editing yourself a .htaccess file. Then
be grateful you're not on IIS, where only the one-and-only admin can do
stuff like this. Isn't Apache wonderful?


Posted by Benjamin Niemann on August 4, 2005, 6:58 pm
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dingbat@codesmiths.com wrote:

> I'm inclined to turn the flame-o-doom on and suggest that you write to
> Google and explain your solution to them, but then you seem to make
> nice boats so I won't 8-)
>
> These are two entirely separate sites. Maybe they're not different, but
> they are separate. As far as Google knows (as far as Google _can_
> know), then they're entirely separate.
>
> Why they're separate is up to your ISP. They've chosen to configure
> their servers so that both URLs return a 200 and appear to be sites
> that are separate (and could even be different).
>
> What they perhaps ought to do is to re-configure things so that one
> site (I'd suggest www.) sends a 301 "Moved Permanently" and redirects
> to the other.
>
> What you should do is to chill out, then fix it. I wouldn't even bother
> badgering the ISP over it (maybe a light moleing, or a brief going over
> with a couple of squirrels). You can sort this out for yourself with a
> few minutes Googlejuice, and editing yourself a .htaccess file. Then
> be grateful you're not on IIS, where only the one-and-only admin can do
> stuff like this. Isn't Apache wonderful?

In order to save you from an overdose of Googlejuice:

I did this in my .htaccess file

--------------------------------
RewriteEngine On

RewriteCond % ^odahoda\.de$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.odahoda.de/$1 [redirect=permanent,last]
--------------------------------

If you get a '500 Internal server error' after this change, mod_rewrite is
not installed and you'll have to drink another cup of Googlejuice...

--
Benjamin Niemann
Email: pink at odahoda dot de
WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/

Posted by Dave Anderson on August 4, 2005, 9:45 am
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sandy wrote:

> How can this be? They are the same site.
> Does Google count the two (with and without www in the domain name)
> as separate sites? Does this mean all the external links
> pointing to the www version don' count for the non-www version?
> When they should?

Think about it! *Exactly* how is Google supposed to determine that
<http://www.montana-riverboats.com> and <http://montana-riverboats.com>
are in fact the same site? Since the "www" prefix is only a convention,
and not always followed, it *can't* -- because they are *not*
necessarily the same site! Even if both URLs resolve to the same set of
IP addresses, they could still be separate sites (since, under HTTP
v1.1, the "host" header allows many different virtual sites on the same
server).

If you want them to be treated as the same site, *you* have to tell the
world that they're the same. I'd suggest setting up
<http://montana-riverboats.com/...> to respond to all requests with a
"moved permanently" redirection status to
<http://www.montana-riverboats.com/...>. IIRC this is easy with Apache,
and probably with other web server software. Do *not* try to use the
<META REFRESH...> hack -- it won't do what you need (as well as being
less efficient).

        Dave


Posted by sandy on August 5, 2005, 8:38 pm
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>
>
> Think about it! *Exactly* how is Google supposed to determine that
> <http://www.montana-riverboats.com> and <http://montana-riverboats.com>
> are in fact the same site?


$domainA = "www.montana-riverboats.com";
($domainB = $domainA) =~ s/www\.//;
$page1 = wget($domainA);
$page2 = wget($domainB);

if(diff page1 page2 eq "" && $ip_address1 == $ip_address2)
{
assumeSameSite($ip_address1, $ip_address2);
}



--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh >--oO0>
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

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