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Definition of planet based on mass Dan Tilque 08-16-2005
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Posted by Dan Tilque on August 16, 2005, 10:59 pm
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An IAU committee is going to come up with a definition of a
planet. Most people talking about it seem to think it will be
based on either size or whether it is pulled into a sphere by
gravity[1] or something like that.

But no one seems to think about using the mass of the object to
define planethood. I'm not sure why not. After all, we
distinguish between a brown dwarf and a planet by mass -- why not
make the lower bound also be mass? The definition could be
something extremely simple like this:

A planet is any object massing between 1e22 and 2.47e28 kg.

Adjust the lower bound as desired. 1e22 lets in Pluto; higher
values like 2e22 or 1e23 will exclude it. The higher bound is 13
Jovian masses, which no one seems to want to argue about.

Alternatively, we could modify Damon Knight's definition of SF
and get:

A planet is any object that planetologists point to and call a
planet.

--
Dan Tilque

[1] I see a couple problems with the self-gravitating sphere
definition, but won't go into them unless there's some interest.




Posted by dirkbontes on August 17, 2005, 4:02 am
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It seems to me that they will have to either go back to the original
five planets or redefine what a planet is.

The original five planets are spheroïds - due to their own gravity -
in orbit around their primary star.

According to these characteristics any object that is spheroïd due to
its own gravitational pull and in orbit around its primary star is a
planet. Any other object in orbit around its primary star that does not
have the gravitational pull to force its mass into a spheroïd shape
should be called an asteroïd.

A moon is defined as a body that is in orbit around another body that
is not a star - with the common centre of mass within the volume of the
primary. It stands to reason to distinguish asteroïd moons and
planetoïd moons, which respectively could not and did gravitationally
pull their own mass into a spheroïd shape.

When the common centre of mass is not within the primary non-star body
one ought to speak of double planets or double asteroïds when neither
is face locked to the other, but of a planet and its moon when the
latter is face locked to the former.

Any non-star object not orbiting a star should be called a free
asteroïd or a free planetoïd.


Dan Tilque wrote:

> [1] I see a couple problems with the self-gravitating sphere
> definition, but won't go into them unless there's some interest.

I am interested.



Posted by Paul Schlyter on August 17, 2005, 2:14 pm
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>It seems to me that they will have to either go back to the original
>five planets or redefine what a planet is.
>
>The original five planets are sphero=EFds - due to their own gravity -
>in orbit around their primary star.
>
>According to these characteristics any object that is sphero=EFd due to
>its own gravitational pull and in orbit around its primary star is a
>planet. Any other object in orbit around its primary star that does not
>have the gravitational pull to force its mass into a sphero=EFd shape
>should be called an astero=EFd.

That definition of yours will make Ceres and a few other large asteroids
"planets".

Also: no planet is an exact spheriod. Which means you'd have to set a
tolerance limit of the maximum allowed deviation from exact spheriod shape
for the body to still be called a "planet". Where would you like to set
that limit?


>A moon is defined as a body that is in orbit around another body that
>is not a star - with the common centre of mass within the volume of the
>primary. It stands to reason to distinguish astero=EFd moons and
>planeto=EFd moons, which respectively could not and did gravitationally
>pull their own mass into a sphero=EFd shape.
>
>When the common centre of mass is not within the primary non-star body
>one ought to speak of double planets or double astero=EFds when neither
>is face locked to the other, but of a planet and its moon when the
>latter is face locked to the former.
>
>Any non-star object not orbiting a star should be called a free
>astero=EFd or a free planeto=EFd.
>
>
>Dan Tilque wrote:
>
>> [1] I see a couple problems with the self-gravitating sphere
>> definition, but won't go into them unless there's some interest.
>
>I am interested.
>


--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/


Posted by dirkbontes on August 17, 2005, 8:01 am
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Paul Schlyter:

> That definition of yours will make Ceres and a few other large asteroids
> "planets".

So what? If we want to exclude those we must define a criterium that
the five original planets have but which they don't have. Such a
criterium might be that planets have to obey the Titus-Bode rule (or my
own variant of the rule; see my live journal page), but as it happens
those bodies obey the Titus-Bode rule as well.

> Also: no planet is an exact spheriod. Which means you'd have to set a
> tolerance limit of the maximum allowed deviation from exact spheriod shape
> for the body to still be called a "planet". Where would you like to set
> that limit?

Where an ovoïd becomes rectangular, or rather where a spheroïd no
longer has at least one circular circumference. I have solved and
described why planets are not exactly spheroïd in my book, so I am
lenient.



Posted by Paul Schlyter on August 18, 2005, 6:14 am
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> Paul Schlyter:
>
>> That definition of yours will make Ceres and a few other large asteroids
>> "planets".
>
> So what? If we want to exclude those we must define a criterium that
> the five original planets have but which they don't have.

But then you're no longer using solely the spheroidical shape (or absence
of such a shape) as the criterion whether the body is a planet or not.

> Such a
> criterium might be that planets have to obey the Titus-Bode rule (or my
> own variant of the rule; see my live journal page), but as it happens
> those bodies obey the Titus-Bode rule as well.
>
>> Also: no planet is an exact spheriod. Which means you'd have to set a
>> tolerance limit of the maximum allowed deviation from exact spheriod shape
>> for the body to still be called a "planet". Where would you like to set
>> that limit?
>
> Where an ovo=EFd becomes rectangular, or rather where a sphero=EFd no
> longer has at least one circular circumference. I have solved and
> described why planets are not exactly sphero=EFd in my book, so I am
> lenient.

By that definition the Earth is not a planet: no circumference on the
Earth is an exact circle, due to the Earth's topography.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/


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