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Basic IPSec question.

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Basic IPSec question. Purtech 11-03-2006
Posted by Purtech on November 3, 2006, 3:46 pm
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So if I get IPSec bypass running on my internal network, how do I handle a
router that is attached to the Internet?

A 3rd party router won't be joined to AD. ----Now this is without ISA.

Do I make Exceptions for it? (WF is up.) Or is there another or preferred
way? Are there routers that can join AD?

Thanks



Posted by Roger Abell [MVP] on November 4, 2006, 12:06 am
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I think you need to clarify what you are attempting/asking.

The IPsec Bypass flag only has affect in allowing an incoming
pack that is received within IPsec authentication to bypass the
Windows Firewall. That is, if an IPsec security association had
been set up, then packets received within that sa are allowed to
not also have to meet the definitions in the Windows Firewall.

I can see no way that this has anything to do with routers.


> So if I get IPSec bypass running on my internal network, how do I handle a
> router that is attached to the Internet?
>
> A 3rd party router won't be joined to AD. ----Now this is without ISA.
>
> Do I make Exceptions for it? (WF is up.) Or is there another or preferred
> way? Are there routers that can join AD?
>
> Thanks
>



Posted by Purtech on November 6, 2006, 10:58 am
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Thanks guys:

I am just posing a theoretical question.

I am learning IPsec (I thought you MS guys did "IPSec") and I know it
requires a SID in Group Policy to set it up. A SID for the Domain. So...the
question crossed my mind, how does it trust a router that doesn't join AD? I
want packets coming from the router/firewall allowed.

I am supposing you have to make an exception in the firewall then.

That's all. (Just discussing it helps... like what Roger said below.)

thanks!





>I think you need to clarify what you are attempting/asking.
>
> The IPsec Bypass flag only has affect in allowing an incoming
> pack that is received within IPsec authentication to bypass the
> Windows Firewall. That is, if an IPsec security association had
> been set up, then packets received within that sa are allowed to
> not also have to meet the definitions in the Windows Firewall.
>
> I can see no way that this has anything to do with routers.
>
>
>> So if I get IPSec bypass running on my internal network, how do I handle
>> a router that is attached to the Internet?
>>
>> A 3rd party router won't be joined to AD. ----Now this is without ISA.
>>
>> Do I make Exceptions for it? (WF is up.) Or is there another or preferred
>> way? Are there routers that can join AD?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>



Posted by karl levinson, mvp on November 6, 2006, 4:41 pm
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> I am learning IPsec (I thought you MS guys did "IPSec") and I know it
> requires a SID in Group Policy to set it up. A SID for the Domain.

Where did you read that a SID is required for IPSec? I am pretty sure that
is not the case. This google search seems to agree:

www.google.com/search?q=windows+ipsec+sid+site%3Amicrosoft.com

IPSec with Windows can be authenticated via a pre-shared key, a PKI
certificate, or Kerberos.

http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1519

Here are instructions from Cisco on how to establish an IPSec tunnel between
Windows and a Cisco router, using pre-shared keys, and no SIDs:

www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk583/tk372/technologies_configuration_example09186a00800b12b5.shtml
www.google.com/search?q=windows+ipsec+cisco+router


--
kind regards,
Karl Levinson, CISSP, CCSA, MCSE [MS MVP]
--------------------------------
Microsoft Security FAQ:
http://securityadmin.info



Posted by Roger Abell [MVP] on November 7, 2006, 1:04 am
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Just to clarify a little . . .

IPsec in tunnel mode (as Karl indicated as available with Cisco, etc.)
is one way to use IPsec. The other, transport mode between two end
systems does not require configuring a router to be involved in order
to allow it to pass the packets between the two end systems.

Roger

> Thanks guys:
>
> I am just posing a theoretical question.
>
> I am learning IPsec (I thought you MS guys did "IPSec") and I know it
> requires a SID in Group Policy to set it up. A SID for the Domain.
> So...the question crossed my mind, how does it trust a router that doesn't
> join AD? I want packets coming from the router/firewall allowed.
>
> I am supposing you have to make an exception in the firewall then.
>
> That's all. (Just discussing it helps... like what Roger said below.)
>
> thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>>I think you need to clarify what you are attempting/asking.
>>
>> The IPsec Bypass flag only has affect in allowing an incoming
>> pack that is received within IPsec authentication to bypass the
>> Windows Firewall. That is, if an IPsec security association had
>> been set up, then packets received within that sa are allowed to
>> not also have to meet the definitions in the Windows Firewall.
>>
>> I can see no way that this has anything to do with routers.
>>
>>
>>> So if I get IPSec bypass running on my internal network, how do I handle
>>> a router that is attached to the Internet?
>>>
>>> A 3rd party router won't be joined to AD. ----Now this is without ISA.
>>>
>>> Do I make Exceptions for it? (WF is up.) Or is there another or
>>> preferred way? Are there routers that can join AD?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>
>>
>
>



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