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....A Quote From Len Cormier...and yet another rant!

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....A Quote From Len Cormier...and yet another rant! jonathan 06-19-2008
Posted by jonathan on June 19, 2008, 9:20 pm
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In the recent discussions of the passing of Len Cormier, the
reasons for the demise of the space ng's seem to keep
coming up. Of course, most simply blame it on the kooks
or various others that are rude or disagree with the
party line. Or people like me that qualify on all those
counts~

But I think most know the truth, which I
believe to be....

The day the Vision was announced, was the day
....'the music died'.

And with it these ngs died also.

To quote Len....

"That is why some of us have suggested that one of the best
things that government might do is to guarantee markets:
"If you will build it, we will come."

"I don't really recommend funding the dumping of a bunch of raw
material in orbit. It should definitely have some value and
usefulness. However, its main usefulness may be as a demonstration
that CATS is possible. Once CATS is shown to be possible, then
a lot of applications become possible -- including SDI; manned
planetary missions; space solar power stations..."

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.policy/browse_thread/thread/be2c2749cf3a4ac7/70f56865e622daba?lnk=gst&q=+have+been+trying+to+figure+out+what+would+be+the+cheapest+and+most+#70f56865e622daba


All that died when President Bush canceled the Space Solar Power
program and replaced it with the Vision.

With the death of SSP, so died the idea of spaceports (remember those?).
And so died govt payloads jump starting commercial launch industry
and bringing cheap access.

NASA itself is dying with the Vision. As anyone with a whit of political
sense knows such a wasteful and useless make-work program
designed only to benefit large contractors and missile defense
is doomed in a high deficit recession environment.

Such a corrupt goal as the Vision is doomed under any circumstances.
Blame others if you like for the demise of these ng's or of NASA, but
the truth lies within.

And if the Vision is dropped...what then becomes of NASA?


However.....

It's time to Dream Again, and go back to the future.
And insist NASA returns to the goals established
before President Bush ...Laid Waste...to our space future.

Space Solar Power (SERT) was the source of all those dreams.
Govt payloads driving commercial launches, providing needs for
spaceports, then cheap access and the sky becomes the limit.

I'm not leaving these ng's until that dream becomes reality
once again. If I have to I intend to will it back into existence
myself with endless rhetoric, browbeating, shaming, flaming
guilt-trips or whatever it takes to build a new consensus
that SSP is the path to a better future.

A goal that solves two greatest threats to this planet.
Energy shortages and global warming.
While securing American prosperity and independence
for the rest of the century by becoming the next
energy 'Saudi Arabia'.

A goal specifically designed to be....popular...
with EVERYONE. From the greenies to the
military to the greedy. Everyone outside the
Middle East that is....

ALL THAT is within our grasp....RIGHT NOW.

Nothing less than saving the planet from itself
while creating a shining future for America.

With a drifting NASA, a new idealistic administration, and the
onset of peak oil and global warming, the time to focus, agree
and press for a new goal is NOW.

Not next year, not next decade NOW DAMMIT!

Call me a kook if you like, but I think ...your heroes
would agree with me. There's one thing about reality
most seem to forget. If enough people holler about something
it can happen.

A few determined people can 'Save/change the World'
...all we have to do is /want it/ badly enough.

Am I asking too much?


What's perhaps the most timeless question of all?
How can an old man be reborn again?


The Bone that has no marrow;
What ultimate for that?
It is not fit for table,
For beggar, or for cat.

A bone has obligations,
A being has the same;
A marrowless assembly
Is culpabler than shame.

But how shall finished creatures
A function fresh obtain?-
Old Nicodemus' phantom
Confronting us again!


A worthy 'cause' is the answer.
I'll never grow old.


Poetic Guilt-trip by E Dickinson


Jonathan


s




Posted by Ian Parker on June 19, 2008, 4:33 am
Please log in for more thread options
> In the recent discussions of the passing of Len Cormier, the
> reasons for the demise of the space ng's seem to keep
> coming up. Of course, most simply blame it on the kooks
> or various others that are rude or disagree with the
> party line. Or people like me that qualify on all those
> counts~
>
> But I think most know the truth, which I
> believe to be....
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0The day the Vision was announced, was the day
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0....'the music died'.
>
> And with it these ngs died also.
>
> To quote Len....
>
> "That is why some of us have suggested that one of the best
> things that government might do is to guarantee markets:
> "If you will build it, we will come."
>
> "I don't really recommend funding the dumping of a bunch of raw
> material in orbit. =A0It should definitely have some value and
> usefulness. =A0However, its main usefulness may be as a demonstration
> that CATS is possible. Once CATS is shown to be possible, then
> a lot of applications become possible -- including =A0SDI; manned
> planetary missions; space solar power stations..."
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.policy/browse_thread/thread/...
>
> All that died when President Bush canceled the Space Solar Power
> program and replaced it with the Vision.
>
> With the death of SSP, so died the idea of spaceports (remember those?).
> And so died govt payloads jump starting commercial launch industry
> and bringing cheap access.
>
> NASA itself is dying with the Vision. As anyone with a whit of political
> sense knows such a wasteful and useless make-work program
> designed only to benefit large contractors and missile defense
> is doomed in a high deficit recession environment.
>
> Such a corrupt goal as the Vision is doomed under any circumstances.
> Blame others if =A0you like for the demise of these ng's or of NASA, but
> the truth lies within.
>
> And if the Vision is dropped...what then becomes of NASA?
>
> However.....
>
> It's time to Dream Again, and go back to the future.
> And insist NASA returns to the goals established
> before President Bush ...Laid Waste...to our space future.
>
> Space Solar Power (SERT) was the source of all those dreams.
> Govt payloads driving commercial launches, providing needs for
> spaceports, then cheap access and the sky becomes the limit.
>
> I'm not leaving these ng's until that dream becomes reality
> once again. If I have to I intend to will it back into existence
> myself with endless rhetoric, browbeating, shaming, flaming
> guilt-trips or whatever it takes to build a new consensus
> that SSP is the path to a better future.
>
> A goal that solves two greatest threats to this planet.
> Energy shortages and global warming.
> While securing American prosperity and independence
> for the rest of the century by becoming the next
> energy 'Saudi Arabia'.
>
> A goal specifically designed to be....popular...
> with EVERYONE. From the greenies to the
> military to the greedy. Everyone outside the
> Middle East that is....
>
> ALL THAT is within our grasp....RIGHT NOW.
>
> Nothing less than saving the planet from itself
> while creating a shining future for America.
>
> With a drifting NASA, a new idealistic administration, and the
> onset of peak oil and global warming, the time to focus, agree
> and press for a new goal is NOW.
>
> Not next year, not next decade NOW DAMMIT!
>
> Call me a kook if you like, but I think ...your heroes
> would agree with me. =A0There's one thing about reality
> most seem to forget. If enough people holler about something
> it can happen.
>
> A few determined people can 'Save/change the World'
> ...all we have to do is =A0/want it/ =A0badly enough.
>
> Am I asking too much?
>
> What's perhaps the most timeless question of all?
> How can an old man be reborn again?
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 The Bone that has no marrow;
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 What ultimate for that?
> =A0 =A0 =A0 It is not fit for table,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 For beggar, or for cat.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 A bone has obligations,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 A being has the same;
> =A0 =A0 =A0 A marrowless assembly
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Is culpabler than shame.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 But how shall finished creatures
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 A function fresh obtain?-
> =A0 =A0 =A0 Old Nicodemus' phantom
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Confronting us again!
>
> A worthy 'cause' is the answer.
> I'll never grow old.
>
> Poetic Guilt-trip by E Dickinson
>
> Jonathan
>
> s

The paradox of the situation is that the weight per unit of power
generated continues to go down. This is particularly true if you
concentrate solar energy by the use of mirrors. However weight is not
the only factor. SSP has not only to be generated, it has to be
transmitted to Earth in a safe (and seen to be safe) way.

I believe that phase coherence and SSP generated by a large number of
phase locked units is the way forward. I feel that although we can the
way in which the technology might work we are still some distance
away. What I think William Mook, and others of a like mind, have to
concentrate on is working out a set of viable intermediate stages.
This is why I would attach great important to things like LISA which
demonstrate phase locking over considerable distances.

One thing which I feel should be pointed out SSP requires phase
locking, it does not need heavy indivisible loads. What is needed is
the most economical way of getting to LEO with ion propulsion going to
the final destination. After all an SSP program will have plenty of
energy to accelerate Xenon/Mercury to 100km/s.

William Mook has talked about NIR for photovolaics on Earth. We could
perhaps direct some power, preferably at night, to existing
terrestrial solar power installations.


- Ian Parker

Posted by Ian Parker on June 19, 2008, 8:55 am
Please log in for more thread options
On 19 Jun, 13:21, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:20:51 -0400, in a place far, far away,
> glow in such a way as to indicate that:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In the recent discussions of the passing of Len Cormier, the
> >reasons for the demise of the space ng's seem to keep
> >coming up. Of course, most simply blame it on the kooks
> >or various others that are rude or disagree with the
> >party line. Or people like me that qualify on all those
> >counts~
>
> >But I think most know the truth, which I
> >believe to be....
>
> > =A0 =A0 The day the Vision was announced, was the day
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ....'the music died'.
>
> >And with it these ngs died also.
>
> >To quote Len....
>
> >"That is why some of us have suggested that one of the best
> >things that government might do is to guarantee markets:
> >"If you will build it, we will come."
>
> >"I don't really recommend funding the dumping of a bunch of raw
> >material in orbit. =A0It should definitely have some value and
> >usefulness. =A0However, its main usefulness may be as a demonstration
> >that CATS is possible. Once CATS is shown to be possible, then
> >a lot of applications become possible -- including =A0SDI; manned
> >planetary missions; space solar power stations..."
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.policy/browse_thread/thread/...
>
> >All that died when President Bush canceled the Space Solar Power
> >program and replaced it with the Vision.
>
> This never happened, you loon. =A0There was no "Space Solar Power
> program" to cancel, and it wasn't "replaced" with anything.- Hide quoted =
text -
>
There have been studies done

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/solar_power_sats_011017-=
1.html

A report has been produced.

http://www.acq.osd.mil/nsso/solar/SBSPInterimAssesment0.1.pdf

It would seem that the current NASA conclusion (first reference) very
much echos my general approach. It advocates investigating terrestrial
transmission. I think you know the basic Physics is known and has been
demonstrated.

As I keep saying my objection to all these references is that they are
all wedded to rigid structures.


- Ian Parker

Posted by Ian Parker on June 19, 2008, 11:31 am
Please log in for more thread options
On 19 Jun, 15:59, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:55:12 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
> in such a way as to indicate that:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 19 Jun, 13:21, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote:
> >> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:20:51 -0400, in a place far, far away,
> >> glow in such a way as to indicate that:
> >> >All that died when President Bush canceled the Space Solar Power
> >> >program and replaced it with the Vision.
>
> >> This never happened, you loon. =A0There was no "Space Solar Power
> >> program" to cancel, and it wasn't "replaced" with anything.- Hide quot=
ed text -
>
> >There have been studies done
>
> >http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/solar_power_sats_0...
>
> >A report has been produced.
>
> >http://www.acq.osd.mil/nsso/solar/SBSPInterimAssesment0.1.pdf
>
> Neither a study, or a report, are a "program." =A0And that report was
> produced without a single dime of government money. =A0And it happened
> long after VSE was announced.- Hide quoted text -
>
True. In point of fact the advocates of terrestrial solar power, in
particular the people who are printing silicon onto glass and other
materials are saying that what they want from government is not
subsidies but a level playing field. An end to subsidies for other
routes, in particular for wind power.

SSP should, of course, aim to be competitive without subsidy. SSP
should save X barrels of oil which will finance it. It is however
heavily dependent of the GOODWILL of government. It will need a lot of
infrastructure to get off the ground.

It also needs to operate in an environment where the costs and
benefits are shared between a number of nations. The construction of
such an environment is something which government alone can do. As I
have repeatedly said space seems to be viewed as a national virility
symbol. This attitude will have to change.


- Ian Parker

Posted by jonathan on June 20, 2008, 11:30 pm
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news:20b49ec4-bcaa-4c15-8cb3-

> SSP should save X barrels of oil which will finance it. It is however
> heavily dependent of the GOODWILL of government. It will need a lot of
> infrastructure to get off the ground.


Right, that's the point. It'll need low cost to orbit first and
foremost. Once we have low cost to orbit, we can have
.....ANYTHING.

SSP, colonies, missile defense. Whatever we decide to do
in space will become practical once low cost to orbit
is achieved.

If we were to set the goal as merely 'low cost to orbit'.
People would want to know "what for"?
You have to have a goal that's built around the
'what for' part.

What's the best possible reason? Saving the world
of course. We should want a program to have it's best
chance for success.


>It also needs to operate in an environment where the costs and
>benefits are shared between a number of nations.


The best way for that is of course 'Saving the World'.



s



- Ian Parker




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